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ST205 brakes to ST165; ST185 hubs

ST185 ST205 ST165 GT4 brakes BBK

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#1 silycr

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:38 PM

So... got everything together and thought I'd do the write up to help anyone else who is thinking of trying to fit these up to either a 165 or a 185. Save us all doing the same thing over and over again

I've used the entire ST185 hub and lower control arm. All I can say is...do not do this. PITA. And only one mounting bolt is correctly located for the east-west cross member, so custom brace it shall be. Also, the ball joints are not interchangeable between ST165 and ST185, so I couldnt just use the ST185 steering knuckle. And I didnt use the ST165 cause the bearings were stuffed in them.

The rear brakes have mated up perfectly with only the metal shroud needing work to allow the larger disc. Other than that, all the bolts and lines fit.

The fronts are completely different. I have;
ST205 discs @ 295mm
ST205 calipers (duhh)
25mm wheel spacer (to suit rims)
3mm hub-disc spacer

I used a 3mm spacer to go between the hub and the disc. So underneath the disc. This was to move the disc out so it would clear the ball joint. At 3mm it only touches when the ball joint is fully extended. I was originally looking for a 5-6mm spacer as it would move it out a safe distance. And I understand there is a write-up saying to do some 'clearance grinding' on the ball joint. But I love the warning saying dont go too far or you'll hit the casing.... IMHO if you're worried about that then there is no material to remove. And what do you think would happen if somehow your ball joint decided to slip whatever casing it had left and go walk about? Mad camber?

Anyway, I put the calipers into the original holes in the knuckle. These holes do match the calipers, but sits closer in than on an ST205, hence the discs reduced from 315mm to 295mm. It was then discovered the disc touches the inside of the caliper. So to get rid of this I needed to grind some off the knuckle mounting holes to move it outwards of the car. I could have taken it off the caliper but I didn't want to desecrate the calipers and the knuckle had the same thickness with much stronger material. Would not be a safety risk as overkill with material there, unlike ball joints. Took about 1mm off, which was plenty enough to centre the disc again. Also had to sort out the backing plate like the rear as the disc wouldnt clear it.

Now the bad news....

Ive taken the car for a quick run and have absolutely no brakes. Can pump them up and they do a minimal job at stopping the car. Almost rear ended a scooby-do van in a test run. Handbrake skid ftw. Also, the ball joint is fouling on the disc when turning. I've raised the car to try and reduce it with very little effect, so I'll need to try and get the 5mm spacers but I and not comfortable taking another 2mm on the steering knuckle mounts. I'm sure they are strong enough but there has to be a better way.
I'm going to check for leaking cylinders in the brakes. I've replaced the ST165 master with a ST185 master but no difference in feel. If anyone else has installed a BBK or st205 brake, please let me know if you used the standard master or uprated. And if you did where did you get it from. Otherwise I will source a ST205 booster and master.

I will be trying to source a set of front discs where I can mount the caliper on the same side the stock st185/65 calipers are mounted as well. Possibly a 2 piece design may be easiest for future replacement.

#2 silycr

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:50 PM

If I do find a disc or get one made up I'll post up the specs.

#3 piggy

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:25 AM

when I was running around on the 205 front brakes on my 165 they bled fine and seem fine on the standard master cylinder. as for no brakes did you maybe put the caliper on the wrong side as it would bleed fine but there would still be an air pocket at the top if the nipple isnt there.

Other wise good luck and good to here you got them on the car even if it is with a few dramas



cheers chris

#4 silycr

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:56 AM

ah fack. Seriously dont do this shit when you're tired. Yes, wrong side. I kept thinking how easy it was to get to the bleed nipple when its at the bottom. How did you solve the ball joint issue when you were running them? Did you use a bracket for the calipers?

#5 Punkture

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 10:16 AM

^^^^ LOL

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#6 pinkst162formylady

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:12 PM

yeh, all this is why i never considered using the st205 front's. i'd rather dogbone an r32 caliper or just get a ceika front kit.

i fitted st205 rears, but i fitted the whole st205 rear hub also so had the correct shoes for the hand brake, and hub centre.

i had considered trying to fit st185 front hub/carriers just to possibly make it easier for suspension, but as st185 aftermarket stuff is now on par with st165 offerings i'll prob just stick with st165 coilovers etc.

#7 silycr

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:37 PM

BRAKES WORK!!!
Don't have any catches on my back seats so now I have to keep pushing them back up cause of all the braking POWAR
Now its time for some 15mm spacers front and rear. Still dont like using spacers but needs them to clear the calipers and fark it looks good :thumbup:

#8 Punkture

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:00 AM

oh sweet! cruise then this weekend? btw fuel economy total was 250km to the tank fark

MY99 GC8 WRX 172kw ATW-72' TA22 4AGZE-ST185 GT4 186kw ATW-E46 323 SC+Str 230kw ATW


#9 silycr

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 07:44 PM

Bahaha. Only if you got a tune cause I dont want to be stopping all the time for fuel... seeing the petrol prices makes me cry and takes the fun out of driving :,(

#10 Punkture

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:29 PM

^^ april :(

MY99 GC8 WRX 172kw ATW-72' TA22 4AGZE-ST185 GT4 186kw ATW-E46 323 SC+Str 230kw ATW


#11 silycr

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:15 PM

What??!! Thought it was Tuesday or something?

#12 pinkst162formylady

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:11 AM

[quote'Punkture' timestamp='1363820457' post='270249'] oh sweet! cruise then this weekend? btw fuel economy total was 250km to the tank fark [/quote]

If your running so rich that your only getting 250km from 65L, youll be washing your bores and the pistons wont be well lubricated. You will damage your bores and pistons, loose compression and get excessive blowby.

Get it tuned or youll be putting another engine in soon.

#13 Punkture

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:44 AM

hmmm never thought of it that way =( yeah sillycr i decided to hold off till after my course in wagga (apr) that way i can actually enjoy it. plus have the boots etc fixed

MY99 GC8 WRX 172kw ATW-72' TA22 4AGZE-ST185 GT4 186kw ATW-E46 323 SC+Str 230kw ATW


#14 OPPYLOCK333

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:14 AM

Just a quick note, the rear brakes don't just bolt up,.. the 205 hub diameter is 1mm larger than 165, so you need to add some metal (I cut up a can) to go between the hub and rotor. if you don't you will have play in the rear rotors, and load the studs up every time you jump on those big anchors.

Going by the difficulty you had with the front's pretty glad I went with the front brake setup I went with!

AL!

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#15 silycr

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:49 PM

Wasnt overly difficult once its all figures out. Hence why I thought I'd post up here. You're right with the rear brakes, but as long as you dont have the handbrake on when doing up the wheel nuts, its centred enough not to cause an issue and doesnt move cause it bolted in. (If it moves i think iv got a problem) Been thinking of ideas to fill the gap. Can might work
:-)

#16 silycr

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:58 PM

Update

Currently having some braided lines made up roughly an inch longer on the caliper side as the standard ones are a little tight. Also have a rebuild kit here which I will get done so I dont have to worry about brakes at all again

#17 Oompa

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:54 PM

I haven't done this yet but have bought the brakes so plan to.

A guy I know has done this to his st165 and changed the discs to 2005 wrx sti rotors as they have the same pcd, (5 x 100), but a larger centre bore, (58mm vs 55mm) necessitating a thicker centering ring but the biggest advantage is that they have a smaller offset, (53mm vs 59mm), so no issues with the ball joint rubbing. They are 2mm thinner, (30mm vs 32mm), wear down 28mm at the max but the calipers can deal with it no issues.

You still have to turn the diameter down and will have to address the centering the disc laterally in the caliper but you dont have to put anything between the disc and the hub

Just an option anyway.

#18 NVSGT4

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:21 PM

Now that i've read this I don't think im gonna sell my 205 calipers.

BecauseRaceCar.png

 

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#19 silycr

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:44 PM

Thank you very much oompa. I was going to do some more work on the brakes in a couple weeks to look at the min thickness of disc that the calipers could handle. Finding a disc 32mm thick is the hardest part. Current specs required are below
295-297mm
54.1mm bore
53-54mm disc height(alternative is mounting caliper on other side of knuckle. To be measure and specs entered)
32mm thickness. (30mm min)
5x100

I actually tried somewhere that makes custom 2piece rotors for nearly any model and was told they could not do it as the bore is too small with such a thick disc.
Was just looking at the 03-04 GTV 3.2L V6 Coupe discs. larger bore with 44.7mm height. Was commonly used in a kit produced by some guy overseas.

#20 silycr

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:07 PM

Now got something else together, with new slotted, drilled rotors and fully rebuilt calipers. Will put the details up once i've tested them out

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#21 TRD-021

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:39 PM

Looking good.

Umm what's the specs. I see a sleeve in the centre and a spacer?
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#22 silycr

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 11:39 PM

I'll let you know once i get the chance to test them out his weekend. They should work fine based on calcs but never know. lol.

my main concern is the clearance from the ball joint





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: ST185, ST205, ST165, GT4, brakes, BBK

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