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#1 Dragz

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 09:48 AM

Hey all im planning on tuning the 185 on e85. Cars pretty much stock has full 3inch exhaust have a microtech lt8 ecu to go in and a ct20b turbo. What fueling system should i be looking to get for this? Not looking for crazy power as the engine is stock.

Cheers for any info
dragz

#2 TD.

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 04:58 PM

What is the main reason you want to get off 98RON and into E85 ?

If you have a build thread please link me, i wouldn't mind checking out what else is done to the car.



Also, thanks heaps for all the replies. I'm fast learning that this may be the friendliest forum on the internet.

 
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#3 Dragz

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 08:01 PM

Mates have gone e85 and the gains they are getting from it is crazy. All from bigger injectors and a pump. I'm after 220kw and hoping e85 will help me get it.

Cars a stock gen 2 3sgte with front mount full 3" exhaust and a ct20b. 



#4 TD.

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 08:39 PM

So the only reason you want E85 is to chase power gains because mates have done it......well...... I have seen far worse reasons.

220kw is roughly 70+kw over the stock power figure.

With a decent tune, some extra boost and E85 you might achieve this increased power figure, but nothing is safe on stock internals



Also, thanks heaps for all the replies. I'm fast learning that this may be the friendliest forum on the internet.

 
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#5 ausjd2703

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 06:55 AM

Doubt you will get there with a stock ct turbo. E85 actually produces more exhaust gases hence improve spool but will also mean the turbo will be to restrictive sooner.
On 98 with a gtx2867 on 20psi. Conservative tune I'm just under 200kw. So with out a turbo swap you won't get there regardless of fuel type.
The e85 conversion require
New fuel lines
New pump
New regulator
For gen 2 new or modified fuel rail
New injectors
Aftermarket ecu
But yes you will make higher power and more useable with ethanol. But if you drive the car rarely you will have corrosion issues and issues with the fuel going stale

ADM ST185 running Gen 3 3SGTE with GTX2867, Haltech PS1000, Racepak dash, Wilwood 330mm four piston fronts. work CR Kais 17-8. full 3" exhaust. FMIC.


#6 Dragz

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 07:56 AM

got to keep up with the evos some how. If the turbo wont allow me to 220kw then ill high flow it. Ive pretty much got everything excepts rail and injectors. if the motor wont handle it means for a gen3 upgrade lol

#7 GT-FOUR

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 10:09 AM

I'm running 20psi out of a GT3076 spastic crossed with a GT28 frame and only make ~260kW on e85. I also run FMIC, Cams, Side Feed Intake, 3" Full exhaust, etc, etc

 

You'll need

 

Pump/Wiring

Rail/Injectors

Fuel Pressure Regulator

Fuel Hoses

Retune

 

I have a wolfkatz side-feed rail for sale, but none of the bits to go with it


JDM ST185 Widebody 258kW / 12.045 @ 185.19 km/h

2010 Hoonda Accord Euro


#8 ausjd2703

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 10:14 AM

Forged engine GT-FOUR?
E85 might be worth more than I think hmmmm
FYI I am pro E85 just didn't think he would get his power on it alone.

ADM ST185 running Gen 3 3SGTE with GTX2867, Haltech PS1000, Racepak dash, Wilwood 330mm four piston fronts. work CR Kais 17-8. full 3" exhaust. FMIC.


#9 Dragz

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 10:20 AM

How much u after for rail?

I'm running 20psi out of a GT3076 spastic crossed with a GT28 frame and only make ~260kW on e85. I also run FMIC, Cams, Side Feed Intake, 3" Full exhaust, etc, etc
 
You'll need
 
Pump/Wiring
Rail/Injectors
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Fuel Hoses
Retune
 
I have a wolfkatz side-feed rail for sale, but none of the bits to go with it



#10 Dragz

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 10:24 AM

How u liking e85 gt four

#11 GT-FOUR

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 11:17 AM

Yeah fully forged; Eagle Rods, CP Pistons, ACL Bearings, etc

Same boost, smaller fuel system, BP98 and GT2860RS Made 224kW

 

Over in Perth e85 is only available at a handful of services stations and my car gets about 18L/100kms so I wouldn't daily it. For a weekender/once a monther e85 is good and the smell is great :)

 

Rail is $200 + post and as said comes only with the rail. Rail + bits and pieces on-line is $330 USD + post. SARD 800cc and Blitz 850cc side feed injectors will fit straight in. I have Gen3 3SGTE injectors for sale but they wont flow enough for e85


JDM ST185 Widebody 258kW / 12.045 @ 185.19 km/h

2010 Hoonda Accord Euro


#12 GT-FOUR

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 12:02 PM

I'm hoping a retune on 25psi will give me more powers


JDM ST185 Widebody 258kW / 12.045 @ 185.19 km/h

2010 Hoonda Accord Euro


#13 st182er

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 12:24 PM

18L/100km  wow

 

watch your needle go down at a red light. hahaha jks

I've driven behind a mates e85 evo 6. I think I may have gotten a alcohol reading if I was RBT'd


Edited by st182er, 01 May 2015 - 12:25 PM.

sig_zpsmro1wsns.png


#14 Schulzy

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 05:37 PM

I'm all for e85 for certain applications. For a daily I just wouldn't do it even witH a fancy flex fuel capable ecu it just doesn't run nice enough for me (I'm a perfectionist) cold starts on anything above e40-50 are pretty average combined with big enough injectors to flow decent power 300+wkw = a pretty average idle and low load driving. But if your not chasing huge power and you can get away with 1000cc injectors or less it might be ok.
Power increases arnt what some people claim on interwebs. I see it all the time oh look I gained 60kw from e85 then you find out its with more boost or a different turbo etc.
Most of the time people arnt tuning to the knock limit of 98ron but for whatever reason tuners are far more willing to push it further on e85 than with 98. There are gains to be had but it's not just fill it up with e85 get a retune and suddenly have 30-60kw more it's not that easy.

#15 MattyP

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 03:18 PM

Not on the celica but on my g6e i went from 375rwkw on 98 to 440rwkw on E85

 

I plan on running the st185 on 98 while i break the motor in but when shes broken in ill be going pump, rail and injectors then shooting for 200awkw on E85

 

Its a great fuel and smells great!


St185 Group A Rallye Current project

 

Daily driven 08 G6ET, 441rwkw on E85


#16 Schulzy

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 03:44 PM

What size injectors you got in there?
My 1000's were maxed around 370-380rwkw in my wagon then I tried some 1600cc injectors and they were just crap so went back to the 1000's. But 65kw just from fuel is a massive gain. I went from 350 ish on 98 to just over 370 on e85 with no changes to the car Apart from fuel

#17 MattyP

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 03:55 PM

I've got id1000s but 6 of them. at my power level they are getting close to max duty cycle but not there yet

 

I know i was incredibly surprised at the difference. it was the same dyno but different days.  there was a temp difference of around 10 degrees if i remember correctly 

 

The problem with E85 atm is united seem to be charging through the teeth for it and they are basing it of the petrol price. Eflex seems to be a bit more independant of petrol and much cheaper, however you would see less power on Eflex

 

What wagon schulzy?


St185 Group A Rallye Current project

 

Daily driven 08 G6ET, 441rwkw on E85


#18 Cuts

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 04:29 PM

I picked up 50kw from going to E85 with the only other change being larger injectors and fuel pump. It's definitly worth it, not for a daily though.

 

Mine has 1200cc injectors and the idle and low speed running is as good as it was with the 800s on 98. On really cold mornings it's a little longer to start, nothing major though.

 

As for the turbo discussion my engine made 204kw atw with a stock ct20b (aussie steel wheel one) on 22 psi. With the correct internals (read cams), injectors etc I believe you could get 220kw atw on e85 with a ct20b, no more though.

 

Also the stock internals are pretty good, I'm running stock rods at 350kw atw, and I know someone with a 3s sprinter making 400kw atw with stock rods too. E85 is easier on the engine so the stock slugs might last a bit longer than with 98.


ST205 Group A Rallye, #61 of 77......350kw atw @ 23 psi on E85. http://www.ozcelica....up-a-rallye-61/
GRX133 Mark X 350s http://www.ozcelica....cuts-new-daily/
 

 


#19 Dragz

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 04:37 PM

220kw is my goal but id be happy with anything over 200kw to be honest. 



#20 Schulzy

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 05:16 PM

Its a Ba futura wagon with all xr6t running gear. When I say maxed I don't like running much more then 80-85% dc on injectors. It's also dual fuel but on gas its only running 6-8 pounds makes mid 200's thats what it runs as most of the time.

#21 MattyP

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 06:47 PM

That is unreal! 

 

Any build threads on the Wagon?

 

Also i think this is a valid point to make i have stock internals on my g6. big power out of a stock motor isnt too difficult especially if its had a refresh. just go easy on the timing and smash boost in. E85 may allow you to run a poop load more advance and you may get a fair bit more power but your engine certainly wont like it and wont last very long.


St185 Group A Rallye Current project

 

Daily driven 08 G6ET, 441rwkw on E85


#22 Schulzy

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 02:03 AM

There is kinda one on boosted falcon i think. But I'm really bad at keeping my threads updated. Yeah fg motors are strong as hell though unlike my ba motor which I'm surprised hasn't thrown a leg out yet. Maybe I'm just a awesome tuner haha.

#23 MattyP

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 05:32 AM

The ba motors really do like to pop when they get thrown timing at them, same as the Ej series engines. they can handle boost fine just not advance. ive seen a Ba with stock internals make it to the 400rwkw club. Albeit with a huge turbo. are you using an aftermarket ecu or hp tuners?

 

Has anyone used ID1000s on our cars with or without E85. 

 

They idle great on the falcon but i havent heard of anyone using them on the 3s


St185 Group A Rallye Current project

 

Daily driven 08 G6ET, 441rwkw on E85


#24 Schulzy

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 11:17 AM

Stock turbo, I'm running a fair amount of timing on 98 I don't like the power delivery of cars that have heaps of boost and no timing in them. I'm using sct pro with an xcal3 atm.
They will work great but won't be big enough on e85 if your making big power would guess ~low 300's atw would be the limit

#25 TD.

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 05:17 PM

Just on that point schulzy, how much base timing are you running, whats the average A/F ratio on boost



Also, thanks heaps for all the replies. I'm fast learning that this may be the friendliest forum on the internet.

 
/ragequit_life

#26 MattyP

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 05:39 PM

how did you get SCT pro?

 

Do you have a workshop?


St185 Group A Rallye Current project

 

Daily driven 08 G6ET, 441rwkw on E85


#27 Schulzy

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 05:43 PM

Its cop so base timing doesn't really exsist but at idle it's 10-14degrees depending on what trims are in place and at full boost its around 18-22 total. A/f I like to keep between 11-12:1 even though the falcons don't seem to knock even if it's in the 12.5s or more but for a safety against bad fuel etc I kept it under 12

#28 TD.

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 07:00 PM

 problem is most people i talk to would rather not risk power for timing, they prefer more power and less timing.



Also, thanks heaps for all the replies. I'm fast learning that this may be the friendliest forum on the internet.

 
/ragequit_life

#29 MattyP

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 01:44 PM

E85 ive heard of people pushing 18+ but thats way to extreme for me.

 

.8 lambda and 12 degrees for me please. that way if i get some shity fuel ill still be okish


St185 Group A Rallye Current project

 

Daily driven 08 G6ET, 441rwkw on E85


#30 Schulzy

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 10:54 PM

To be honest that's just where I ended up after a little trial and error. That's a good base to start with for most engines. But every engine is a little different when I was doing the supercharged 2zz's when I was working for lotus we had 4 engines built that were supposed to be all the same. Cnc ported etc and for whatever reason one engine like to run leaner then all the rest and with more timing and it made 20-25kw more then the other 3 and I could never find out why.
14-15 degrees in the peak load aka where the motor makes max torque isn't that far away from optimal anyway but other parts of the map can be nearly double that even in areas of load and boost. Just makes the engine make more power everywhere spending time on the whole timing map




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