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safe drive train limits

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#1 ejp

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 01:17 AM

Hi. My 185 groupe A motor has failed. I'm going to have the motor rebuilt and toughened up. Looking for 350+hp @ 4w's. Question is what hp is the drive train able to reliably handle. What are or is the weakest point?

#2 MattyP

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 10:03 AM

Jeez how many group A are in for rebuilds atm lol

 

My car which has just had a fresh rebuild is on the dyno. 

 

The 3s is quiet a strong package though..

 

What failed with yours?


St185 Group A Rallye Current project

 

Daily driven 08 G6ET, 441rwkw on E85


#3 Phiz

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 07:08 PM

Just say F*** it and start again with a 5sgte (if you have the money) if you want to run high boost with better bottem end. Just get uprated everything if you plan to run 350. Stuff from factory wasn't made to handle that power.
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#4 MattyP

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 07:14 PM

Wish i went the 5sgte


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St185 Group A Rallye Current project

 

Daily driven 08 G6ET, 441rwkw on E85


#5 ejp

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 08:55 PM

Jeez how many group A are in for rebuilds atm lol

 

My car which has just had a fresh rebuild is on the dyno. 

 

The 3s is quiet a strong package though..

 

What failed with yours?

The rings have let go in one cylinder. I was running 19psi boost and 212hp at the wheels.



#6 st182er

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 09:26 PM

is it just me or does that seem like not much power for the amount of boost ran?


sig_zpsmro1wsns.png


#7 Cuts

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 09:44 PM

Because 185..they never make decent power...BBUURRNNN.

 

On a serious note what is with you west australian's always quoting hp figures. This is a metric country...get with the kw program :P

 

156kw at 19 psi is terrible, but if its a pretty stock gen2 (turbo, cams, injectors etc) then more than likely close to accurate.

 

Builds don't have to be spastic to get decent power. 275kw atw (your 350hp atw) should be possible with the following:

Garrett GT3076 on aftermarket manifold with or without screamer pipe

800cc or larger injectors

walbro 255 or better fuel pump

front mount

3" exhaust with or without a cat

Forged pistons (around 8.8 or 9:1 compression on stock 3s crank and rods

264 deg 9.0mm lift or larger cams (if given the choice longer duration after these specs is preferable over more lift on turbo engines.

uprated valve springs

side feed (st162) inlet manifold, (preferably but not mandatory with a bored out or slight larger throttle)

After that just the usual new gaskets, pumps, tensioners, belts etc

 

and you're done.

 

Gearbox is good for quite a lot of power, good for over 350-400kw atw I would say. Clutches need upgrading obviously, NPC is my choice. The only thing is the gearbox if its done a few kms might have some wear in the synchros.

 

Diff is good for 300kw atw I would say, diff mount almost always need replacing in a 20-30 year old car.

 

It's a good idea at this point to have your radiator flushed/replaced too.

 

Have I forgotten anything anyone?


ST205 Group A Rallye, #61 of 77......350kw atw @ 23 psi on E85. http://www.ozcelica....up-a-rallye-61/
GRX133 Mark X 350s http://www.ozcelica....cuts-new-daily/
 

 


#8 moo11123

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 08:43 AM

what clutch would you get to run that power. surely not organic? 



#9 MattyP

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 10:16 AM

You may want to back boost off. 19psi should see you close to 180awkw with the right supporting mods. it seems like your turbo is just a hot air dryer.

 

I know this because my brother did the exact same thing to blow my car up.

 

200awkw is unbeliavably fun to drive and still very streetable. Thats my goal anyway with a gtx disco spud (eventually)


St185 Group A Rallye Current project

 

Daily driven 08 G6ET, 441rwkw on E85


#10 GT-FOUR

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 12:04 PM

Or you could just come and offer me 12k for my car and I'll say "No worries!" and save you some coin :P

 

I think Cuts has pretty much covered it all. Fuel rail probably wont support the flow of 800cc injectors though?


Edited by GT-FOUR, 26 May 2015 - 12:08 PM.

JDM ST185 Widebody 258kW / 12.045 @ 185.19 km/h

2010 Hoonda Accord Euro


#11 Duhchinkyazn

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 01:08 AM

I got 770cc top feed... i should see a figure close to that when my cars done. my mate runs 750cc on his SR and makes 390@rwhp or 290kw ay cuts ;)

 

but then again different car different engine.


ST185 REBUILD

THREAD: http://www.ozcelica....8463-jdm-st185/

photo-thumb-55539.jpg?_r=1428932670 MEH CBF WORKING ON THIS SIG


#12 Cuts

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 06:06 PM

^haha good

I made 307 kw atw with Sard 800cc injectors, true the 185 fuel rail isn't quite as good as the 205 but still.


ST205 Group A Rallye, #61 of 77......350kw atw @ 23 psi on E85. http://www.ozcelica....up-a-rallye-61/
GRX133 Mark X 350s http://www.ozcelica....cuts-new-daily/
 

 


#13 Duhchinkyazn

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 12:57 AM

Were you maxing out your injectors at 307? Or still had room to go more?

ST185 REBUILD

THREAD: http://www.ozcelica....8463-jdm-st185/

photo-thumb-55539.jpg?_r=1428932670 MEH CBF WORKING ON THIS SIG


#14 Cuts

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 06:35 PM

45ecdac7.jpg.505x650_q85.jpg


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ST205 Group A Rallye, #61 of 77......350kw atw @ 23 psi on E85. http://www.ozcelica....up-a-rallye-61/
GRX133 Mark X 350s http://www.ozcelica....cuts-new-daily/
 

 


#15 Duhchinkyazn

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 12:17 AM

:')

ST185 REBUILD

THREAD: http://www.ozcelica....8463-jdm-st185/

photo-thumb-55539.jpg?_r=1428932670 MEH CBF WORKING ON THIS SIG


#16 ejp

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 10:39 PM

Well looked at the dollars and it's in at the shop. Target 250 at the wheels. I use old figures cause I'm an old bloke and this is just one of my cars. Should be back on the street in 6 to 8 weeks. Drive train on Group A is good for about 500hp so I wont be over working it. New reconed intercooler from 205, exhaust mod's and a new turbo, ECU and fully forged internals plus other ner bits will make it streetable with a bit of fun under the hood.


Edited by ejp, 10 June 2015 - 10:40 PM.


#17 Duhchinkyazn

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 11:26 PM

I see you are in perth... are you doing this by yourself or going into a shop? Considering you are forging it means you want some crazy horsepowers or killawasps :)


ST185 REBUILD

THREAD: http://www.ozcelica....8463-jdm-st185/

photo-thumb-55539.jpg?_r=1428932670 MEH CBF WORKING ON THIS SIG


#18 JB.

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 11:45 AM

What happened to the this build?


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