St185 anti lag
Posted 05 June 2016 - 12:30 PM
Just after some info on anti lag set ups for the st185. Has anyone here done it? What's involved? Obviously need an ecu that can run it but what else would i be looking at to get it all set up? What levels of boost can you run on and off throttle?
Downsides? It will burn out the turbo pretty quick i assume and also f**k the exhaust.
Just trying to weight up if it is worth it or not really.
Posted 05 June 2016 - 08:17 PM
There is a couple of ways to do anti lag, most aftermarket ecus can do a basic version which is just pulling heaps of timing out of it, so combustion happens right before or just as the exhaust valve is opening. These systems only work with your foot on the throttle.
The correct (RE what the 205's and pretty well all rally cars after had) is to have a valve that lets air in the exhaust manifold, then the ecu dumps in heaps (HHEEAAPPSS) of fuel and pulls a little timing. In this case combustion happens both in the combustion chamber, then again in the manifold. The excess fuel mixes with the fresh air let in through the valve and the temperature of the manifold and gasses escaping the cylinder is enough to ignite the mixture. These systems work from idle.
So after that, yes you can get a ecu to do basic antilag/launch control, yes it's bad for the turbo, manfold and valves, but only if you sit on anti lag all day.
To give you an example, I've been running a power fc pro for about 6-8 years, and I've done many many many hard launches using launch control, I've just pulled the head off and the valves are still mint.
Posted 06 June 2016 - 10:43 AM
Posted 06 June 2016 - 01:33 PM
This sort of valve is not really an off the shelf thing, it needs to be capable of high temps not just a simple air solenoid.
below is a pic of the ST205 Group A Rallye/ WRC anti lag setup, all the grp a/wrc have this system in place but it's dormant (needed for wrc rules at the time).
Posted 06 June 2016 - 06:07 PM
Now if i go for the proper setup with the exhaust port valves how are they activated? Would it be something you can enable and disable via different engine maps in the ecu?
Posted 06 June 2016 - 09:24 PM
The heads have a different bolt pattern so no the manifold won't bolt up.
The ecu activates it when the correct parameters are met (engine up to temp, anti lag switch on etc).
Posted 06 June 2016 - 11:35 PM
Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:53 AM
Posted 07 June 2016 - 04:38 PM
Track days generally speaking you won't be coming to a stop often which is where you'd see the gains from anti-lag - I think for occasional track work you could get a lot more value for less money without adding anywhere near the same wear and tear to components.
- 1990 JDM ST185 - TEIN HAs / CUSTOM DMS SPRINGS - WHITELINE REAR SWAYBAR - WHITELINE REAR STRUT BRACE - CT20B TURBO - 3" AUSSIE EXHAUST / DUMP PIPE - CHINA SPEC FMIC - NPC CLUTCH / LIGHTWEIGHT FLYWHEEL - GROUP A FRONT BAR - CUSTOM PEELING CLEARCOAT - 18" OX631 RIMS - TURBOTECH MANUAL BOOST CONTROLLER (@15PSI) -
Posted 07 June 2016 - 05:32 PM
But seeing as it doesnt appear you have an aftermarket ecu yet, id say there'd be many things on that list before antilag.
Posted 07 June 2016 - 06:15 PM
I was looking at getting the motec ecu and running around 18 - 20 psi boost and see where that leaves me in terms of power and drivability but was hoping to explore the anti lag option while i was at it
Posted 07 June 2016 - 07:18 PM
Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:03 PM
Hiflows are notoriously laggy (in which case antilag would help) and ive not come across any making what i would consider decent numbers, in that they have the lag of a big turbo, but hp of a small turbo.
Also, obv motec is real nice, but i think a bit overpriced for the application. A haltech elite 750 or ps1000 will do all you need at prob half the cost.
Also, the std st205 system iirc as mitch said its defunct and only there for homologation, but the pipes they used are also too small to work effectively. If you find pics of the wrc cars they are much bigger.
Otherwise i could give you some bits of the st205 exh manifold i have. But its purely cosmetic.
Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:04 PM
Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:22 PM
I will look into the Haltech too, have heard good things but haven't had much to do with them before.
If the 205 stuff is mainly just cosmetic then i won't waste my time stuffing around with it but the dbw throttle idea is worth looking into. Has anyone here had this setup? Pro's and con's?? Pricing?
Thanks for all the info guys
Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:26 PM
Posted 07 June 2016 - 09:08 PM
I hadn't got to that point yet but, yeah you're much better off spending the money on a better turbo. If you got a GT28 based turbo it can go under the stock heat shield using the standard manifold. Which is money better spent. Forget anti lag, if you really must have it, use the basic antilag most aftermarket ecus support.
Posted 07 June 2016 - 09:44 PM
Yeh, stronger material. I think all garret gt turbos have inconel, unsure about the ol ct26 (obv not the ceramic ones)
Posted 08 June 2016 - 10:38 AM
Ok i think i'll take your advice and start with a turbo & manifold and get the ecu first, do the tune and then i can revisit the anti lag idea if i still want to
Posted 08 June 2016 - 12:36 PM
But, yeh. As said you can get a fairly effective antilag/luanch control setup when you fit your aftermarket ecu.
Think you want a clutch switch added for this.
Id do this first, see how long your rebuilt ct26 holds up, then fit a garrett when the exh turbine falls off.
Posted 08 June 2016 - 01:42 PM
Posted 08 June 2016 - 04:40 PM
Posted 08 June 2016 - 06:06 PM
Posted 08 June 2016 - 10:49 PM
im pretty sure a clutch switch is required to run antilag/luanch control? Or maybe its just for flat shifting...
You don't need a clutch switch. You can set parameters such as 0kph and rpm at 3000rpm to engage it. Generally this setup will also have a switch to engage it.
My 5S-GTE Build:
Posted 09 June 2016 - 09:28 AM
Posted 09 June 2016 - 12:57 PM
Gen 4 ST215 engine conversion, FMIC, Hatech Elite 1500, Forged CP pistons, ST205 rear calipers, front ST205 yet to install.
Posted 09 June 2016 - 02:49 PM
Im sure there are more than one way to do it. Haltech may have an explination on their site/forums
Posted 09 June 2016 - 06:23 PM
I'll do a bit of searching on Haltech as that seems to be the ecu to get and see what they say
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