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Haltech challenges - help please - ISSUE FOUND


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#1 HIRISK

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 07:24 AM

Hi everyone,

I have had a Haltech PS1000 all wired up but we can't get the car to start.

It appears we are not getting a signal from the distributor.

Not sure where the issue is at the moment.

Can anyone give me advice in...

a ) what wires you use from the distributor?
b ) maybe it is the pinouts on the loom to ECU need swapping

Thoughts?


Edited by HIRISK, 12 December 2016 - 11:51 AM.


#2 Punknoodle

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 11:17 AM

Hi mate, can you send me your email address? I have a heap of documentation and wiring diagrams I made when I installed mine and can guide you through it over email if you like. I can send it when I get home tonight.

#3 HIRISK

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 11:22 AM

Awesome, thanks mate.

 

shaun.wilton@carsales.com.au



#4 JDM-GTFour

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 04:38 PM

Hi mate, can you send me your email address? I have a heap of documentation and wiring diagrams I made when I installed mine and can guide you through it over email if you like. I can send it when I get home tonight.

 

 

Maybe you could upload these to the site? I'm betting someone else will want that info later..



#5 Punknoodle

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 07:16 PM

OK, for the benefit of others, here is a text version of the spreadsheet, its a little hard to read sorry but it's too hard for me to work out how to do a table in a forum post.
 
Note, the extras are to suit my application, as in coil on plug, boost control, extra sensors etc.  Yours will be different.
 
Wiring Changeover
"* Numbers run left to right, top row first and so on.  Looking from back on connector (as if looking in to ECU)"
 
Factory ECU - Haltech ECU
Pin - Colour - Description - Pin - Colour
 
26 Pin Connector
1 White Black Stripe EO1 Power Ground A10 Black
2 Red No.1 Injector A19 Blue
3 Green No.2 Injector A20 Blue/Black
4 Dark Green Brown Band STJ Cold Start Injector NOT USED
5 Green White Stripe RSC ISC Valve (Close) A23 Violet/Red
6 Light Pink Black Stripe HT Oxygen Sensor Heater NOT USED
7
8 Blue Red Stripe TPC 1 Turbo VSV NOT USED
9
10
11 Black Yellow Stripe Brown Band IGF Igniter NOT USED
12 Blue G2 Distributor B2 Yellow
13 Yellow NE Distributor B1 Yellow
14 White Black Stripe Grey Band EO2 Power Ground A11 Black
15 Yellow No.3 Injector A21 Blue/Brown
16 Blue No.4 Injector A22 Blue/Red
17 Green Red Stripe EGR EGR VSV NOT USED
18 Green Black Stripe RSO ISC Valve (Open) A1 Violet/Brown
19
20 White Brown Band IGT Igniter NOT USED
21
22 Light Green TVIS Intake Air VSV A30 Blue/Grey
23 Green Silver Band FC Circuit Opening Relay A24 Black/Yellow
24
25 Red G1 Distributor NOT USED
26 Brown E1 Engine Ground B14 Black/White
 
 
 
 
 
16 Pin Connector
1 Purple Yellow Stripe Brown Band VF Check Connector NOT USED
2
3 White OX1 Oxygen Sensor NOT USED
4 Clear KNK Knock Control Sensor NOT USED
5 Red Coolant Temp Sensor B4 Violet
6 Grey Brown Band THA1 Air Temp Sensor NOT USED
7 Grey Black Stripe Brown Band VS Air Flow Meter NOT USED
8 Pink Blue Stripe Brown Band VC Sensor Power A9 Orange
9 Black G- Distributor "B5,6" Green
10 Orange Brown Band T Check Connector NOT USED
11 White OX2 Check Connector NOT USED
12 Red White Stripe Blue Band PIM Turbo Pressure Sensor NOT USED
13 Pink IDL Throttle Position Sensor NOT USED
14 Pink Black Stripe VTA Throttle Position Sensor A14 White
15
16 Brown Blue Band E2 Sensor Ground B15 Black/White
 
22 Pin Connector
1 Black Silver Band STA Starter Switch NOT USED
2 Black White Stripe Silver Band "Old AC Magnet, now Rad" NOT USED
3 Blue White Stripe Silver Band SPD Speed Sensor B8 Grey
4
5
6 Green Red Stripe Silver Band FPR Fuel Pump Relay NOT USED
7 Pink Silver Band W Warning Light NOT USED
8 Green White Stripe Silver Band STP Stop Light Switch NOT USED
9
10 Orange Silver Band TLS Tail Light & Defogger NOT USED
11 Pink Silver Band BATT Battery NOT USED
12
13 Aqua Marine Black Stripe Silver Band ACT A/C Amplifier NOT USED
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 Black Yellow Stripe Silver Band B1 Main Relay B11 Red/White
22 Black Yellow Stripe Silver Band B Main Relay A26 Red/Blue
 
Extras
Ign1 Orange Ign1 A3 Yellow/Black
Ign2 Blue Ign2 A4 Yellow/Red
Ign3 Pink Ign3 A5 Yellow/Orange
Ign4 Grey Ign4 A6 Yellow/Green
Sol + Pink Boost Control Sol Feed B11 Red/White
Sol - Purple Boost Control Sol Ground B19 Violet/Orange
IAT Gnd Purple IAT Sensor Ground B15 Black/White
IAT Sig Grey IAT Sensor Signal B3 Grey
Switch Com Purple Enable Switch B16 Black/White
Switch N/O Grey Enable Switch B7 Grey/Green
O.P Sig Red Oil Pressure A17 Orange/Red
Sig Gnd Black Sensor Ground B15 Black/White
O.T Sig Blue Oil Temp A25 Orange/Yellow Use 1K Resistor for pull up
Tach Black Haltech Tach Output A18 Violet/Black
 
Trigger settings are Multitooth 24 and 1,
Trigger angle 50 degrees
Tooth offset 23
Trigger and Home edges both Falling
Trigger and Home sensor types both Reluctor
Trigger and Home filter level Level 1
 
Use the diagnostics page to determine you have the correct triggers coming to the ECU.


#6 HIRISK

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 07:27 PM

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

 

I will let you know how I go.



#7 Punknoodle

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 10:13 PM

Just copying my rough guide on the commissioning from my latest email to you here, purely in the interest of helping out anyone else in the future...


Are you cranking the engine with the injectors disabled? Have you set the base timing using a timing light with the ignition lock at 10°?

Also, factory wiring uses a fuel pump relay which runs the pump and low speed using resistors. You need to pull that relay out and bridge it, or else the pump will run at low speed. If you haven't done this already let me know and I'll show you how to do it.

My commissioning process goes something like this:
- Make sure your battery us fully charged.
- Make sure all your inputs are working properly and that the throttle position is calibrated.
- Disable injectors in the software (I also pull out the fuel pump bridge I mention above which disables the fuel pump.
- Lock the timing to 10° (meaning 10° advance)
- Set the trigger angle to roughly 60
- Use a timing light cranking the engine on the starter, change the tooth offset until the timing mark ends up within 10 degrees of the reference mark. If you aren't getting spark you have an trigger or coil issue and you should check your diagnostic page in ECU manager to see what your triggers are doing. They should be counting up, your home should count up slowly as well and your triggers since last home should be 24. Miss counter should be low, around 1 or 2.
- Adjust the trigger angle to fine adjust it to be on the mark
- Enable the injectors and fuel pump
- Crank engine again until it fires up
- Verify the timing is still on the marks now that the engine is idling. You can adjust this as it's running. After this you can unlock the timing lock.
- If you have a fuel pressure regulator, remove the vacuum line from it and adjust the base pressure to what you want it set at. Reinstall vacuum line when done.

You no longer adjust the timing with the distributer, and if you move the distributer you will have to set the timing all over again.

#8 TRD-021

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 12:02 PM

Did you get it to start?
GT-Four Group A Rallye, Carlos Sainz Edition # 21 out of 150.
Gen 4 ST215 engine conversion, FMIC, Hatech Elite 1500, Forged CP pistons, ST205 rear calipers, front ST205 yet to install.

#9 HIRISK

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 12:14 PM

Not yet.....frustrating.

 

There is just no signal at all at the ECU from the distributor. Sucks as there are only 4 wires, of which you only use 3.

 

We are going to swap out the PS1000 today and put in another one just to eliminate the slim chance the ECU is the issue.

 

The problem is there is so many different ECU's across the years and models that even making sure the pin outs are right is a challenge.

 

2016-12-07_1306_zpsr90zyuhx.png

 

 

2016-12-07_1311_zpspfxtptdi.png

 

2016-12-07_1312_zps3forctyk.png


Edited by HIRISK, 07 December 2016 - 12:16 PM.

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#10 Punknoodle

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 02:18 PM

Ok, couple of things to check. First is rather obvious but you'd be surprised how often it gets missed - check to make sure it's plugged in at the bottom of the distributer. It may have been disconnected when doing the fuel rail.

Have you checked the rest of the inputs? Do you have the right temps?

Is the wiring for the triggers wired as per the connection diagram above? Go by colour. So the black wire needs to go to B5 and B6 as it's the ground for both triggers, then the two Yellows from the Haltech loom, one is B1 the other is B2, B1 goes to the yellow wire and B2 goes to the blue wire. I believe you can use G1 instead of G2 for the trigger, it just changes the tooth offset required. If you crank the engine you should see the trigger count changing. Make sure the settings are correct in ECU manager.

If all that is correct, you may need to change the trigger threshold voltages. Does your tuner not have an oscilloscope for checking the trigger signals?

#11 Punknoodle

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 02:22 PM

If you are using a base map for the 3s it should already have the trigger threshold voltage table close enough to get it displaying the triggers.

#12 clixx-io

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 02:23 PM

I'm frikkin with my car at the moment and going through a similar problem.

 

What I'd suggest is to take some wire directly from the distributor connects directly into the cabin or wherever your ECU and bypass the wiring harnesses totally until you see it fire.

 

If you want to check the connectivity between the engine and the cabin, use some speaker wire with connectors plugged into where you want to go - ie the distributor. You need two of the connectors from there as I understand it - one which behaves as a Crank-angle-sensor and the other which gives 1-pulse per revv. I know this sounds dicky but it's working for me at the moment.


Edited by clixx-io, 07 December 2016 - 02:25 PM.


#13 HIRISK

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 02:25 PM

I'm frikkin with my car at the moment and going through a similar problem.

 

What I'd suggest is to take some wire directly from the distributor connects directly into the cabin or wherever your ECU and bypass the wiring harnesses totally until you see it fire.

 

If you want to check the connectivity between the engine and the cabin, use some speaker wire with connectors plugged into where you want to go. I know this sounds dicky but it's working for me at the moment.

 

Good idea!



#14 Punknoodle

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 02:40 PM

If the car was running on the old ecu I would comfortably say the loom is fine, it's likely the connections or settings

Edited by Punknoodle, 07 December 2016 - 02:41 PM.


#15 HIRISK

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 03:58 PM

If the car was running on the old ecu I would comfortably say the loom is fine, it's likely the connections or settings


Ahhh, good point, yes it was running fine.


Edited by HIRISK, 07 December 2016 - 03:58 PM.


#16 Punknoodle

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 04:04 PM

Do you have the car or is it at the workshop? If you have access to it and all the connections for the ECU are exposed to have a look at and you have the laptop and timing light and everything ready to go then I could video call you and we could sort it out.

#17 TRD-021

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 09:32 PM

I've got my own wiring pin out that I did when I installed an ST205 engine. The Group A are but different and I couldn't find one on the net that match 100%. I'll find tomorrow and send it to you.
GT-Four Group A Rallye, Carlos Sainz Edition # 21 out of 150.
Gen 4 ST215 engine conversion, FMIC, Hatech Elite 1500, Forged CP pistons, ST205 rear calipers, front ST205 yet to install.

#18 HIRISK

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 08:27 AM

Called in to see the guys at the workshop yesterday.

 

They swapped out the PS100 for another and same issue, no distributor signal being picked up by the ECU.

 

At least that eliminates the possibility of a faulty ECU.

 

They have contacted an old customer of theirs who also has a red GT-Four Group A (vic number plates : 'sainz') that they did a Haltech install on a while ago.

 

He is going to swing by their workshop so they can cross reference how they set up his car and replicate the wiring on mine.

 

I will keep you all posted.



#19 clixx-io

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 11:57 AM

If you need a standard fully working ST185 Distributor let me know. I have one.

 

It even has the wires broken out properly for doing bench-testing.

 

On the standard cars, the distributor outs go to the Ignitor.

 

https://plus.google....375142322482178


Edited by clixx-io, 09 December 2016 - 12:03 PM.


#20 Punknoodle

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 07:52 PM

The distributer signals don't go directly to the igniter. The distributer signals go to the ECU as G1, G2 and NE with the G- ground, and the igniter is fed the IGT and IGF signals. Otherwise it couldn't have variable ignition timing.

#21 sainz 47

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 07:44 AM

Ray has my car in the shop to copy now, he he fitted my haltech about 4 years ago.

He also wired up my c.o.p system from a evo10 .




Carlos sainz GT4 Group A / No: 150 of 150 / BOV / Kings & Koni's / OZ racing wheels / yokohama AR-01 / Magnaflow exhaust / Sparco wheel / Turbo Timer / more to come...

#22 HIRISK

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 07:53 AM

Ray has my car in the shop to copy now, he he fitted my haltech about 4 years ago.

He also wired up my c.o.p system from a evo10 .

 

Excellent, good to hear - thanks for helping out and dropping your car off for Ray to cross check - really much appreciated.

 

Out of interest, what was your reason for going the c.o.p. set up? Is it for reliability? power?



#23 sainz 47

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 08:09 AM

COP s should last the life of the car and considering the power the newer motors make i believe it would give me a stronger and more precise spark.

Also there is no need to replace rotor buttons and dissy caps and leads ,coils ,igniters .

KISS.

Keep it simple stupid. 




Carlos sainz GT4 Group A / No: 150 of 150 / BOV / Kings & Koni's / OZ racing wheels / yokohama AR-01 / Magnaflow exhaust / Sparco wheel / Turbo Timer / more to come...

#24 clixx-io

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 08:50 AM

The new ST215W engine that I have has COPs. I've tested them out of the engine and the difference in spark size compared to the old size is impressive.

 

They appear to even be able to drive a continuous plasma stream for seconds.

 

In the car, the increase in torque compared to the old engine is really noticeable but that also might be due to the TVIS being gone.

 

Definitely go the coil-on-plug way if you can. You won't have regrets.



#25 Punknoodle

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 10:48 AM

+1 on COP. You have the outputs and it's a small amount of wiring for a lot of benefit. Toyota 1ZZ or 1NZ coils fit in beautifully, you will need a way to secure them, usually a plate that is bolted to the head and the coils go through and attach to the plate, but it really isn't a hard job. If you do go with the 1ZZ coils let me know and I'll give you the dwell time settings etc you need to configure within ECU manager.

Edit: Actually, I've already sent you my map so just copy those settings.

Edited by Punknoodle, 10 December 2016 - 10:50 AM.

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#26 TRD-021

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 06:46 AM

Not sure if you've already figure it out but this is the ECU wiring pin out for a group A. The wring is similar to the ST205 a few pins different and except for the WTA. This is what I did when I was running my ST205 engine.

+2 on COP are good. A lot trickyer to set up the trigger but once set up its worth it.

IMG_1545.jpg
GT-Four Group A Rallye, Carlos Sainz Edition # 21 out of 150.
Gen 4 ST215 engine conversion, FMIC, Hatech Elite 1500, Forged CP pistons, ST205 rear calipers, front ST205 yet to install.

#27 HIRISK

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 11:08 AM

We found the issue!!

 

We removed my distributor this morning and also the removed the distributor from a working car.

 

It was immediately found that mine has a lot of up/down play in the shaft and it looks like it has been wearing a magnet down.

 

It is amazing how much more sensitive the Haltech ECU vs the Factory ECU must be.

 

Runs fine on stock ECU  / won't run with Haltech ECU - Massive WTF

 

Anyway, a MASSIVE THANK YOU to everyone that tried to help in this thread and I am sorry I sent you all down a rabbit warren when it was not a wiring issue at all.

 

Sigh....the joy of 185 :)

 

The TOP one is mine...

 

IMG_6275_zps2ittjhai.jpg


Edited by HIRISK, 12 December 2016 - 11:08 AM.


#28 TRD-021

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 11:48 AM

That's good news! Another st185 running haltech :)
ready for a tune?
GT-Four Group A Rallye, Carlos Sainz Edition # 21 out of 150.
Gen 4 ST215 engine conversion, FMIC, Hatech Elite 1500, Forged CP pistons, ST205 rear calipers, front ST205 yet to install.

#29 HIRISK

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 11:51 AM

ready for a tune?

 

As soon as I can find a new distributor, we will be good to go.



#30 sainz 47

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 05:55 PM

If you need a standard fully working ST185 Distributor let me know. I have one.

 

It even has the wires broken out properly for doing bench-testing.

 

On the standard cars, the distributor outs go to the Ignitor.

 

https://plus.google....375142322482178




Carlos sainz GT4 Group A / No: 150 of 150 / BOV / Kings & Koni's / OZ racing wheels / yokohama AR-01 / Magnaflow exhaust / Sparco wheel / Turbo Timer / more to come...




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