Jump to content


Photo

GT4 st185 fuel problem


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 Daza

Daza

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 12 February 2017 - 08:02 PM

restoring a ST185R GT4 1990 model. has benn sitting for awhile but with new battery got ut turning over but not starting. It coughed a start for about2secs then has refused after that. checked Volts at tank plug with ign ON = app8-9volts and cant hear pump running.
Ran a wire on diagnostic plug FP +B and nothing. Ran a twin pair from battery direct to pump feed and heard pump run for about 10 secs. It stopped - not sure if its shut down to a pressure switch?
also the diagnostic plug did not issue a Flash set when jumped.
So question is could it be a relay or what should I look for.

#2 trentmeyer23

trentmeyer23

    Forum Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 732 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 12 February 2017 - 08:45 PM

If you only have 8-9 volts, the battery is next to dead. It wouldn't even run my cooling fans at that voltage. The battery may need charging or it may have dropped a cell or 2.

I know you said it's new, but what is the voltage at the battery?

Edited by trentmeyer23, 12 February 2017 - 08:47 PM.

My 5S-GTE Build:

Click Here

trentmeyer23siggreen_zpsaf02b3dd.jpg


#3 Daza

Daza

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:42 AM

battery has 12.48v thermo fan runs and engine cranks over just like it should. The voltage at the fuel pump is with ign in normal ON position.(engine not running of course).

#4 TD.

TD.

    OZCelica Junkie

  • NSW & ACT Moderator
  • 1,987 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney CBD
  • Interests:Above Us Only Sky.
  • STATE:NSW

Posted 13 February 2017 - 04:04 PM

So voltage at the fuel pump with the key in the ACC positon is less than 12v ?

If yes then i would look into this, possibly a resistance fault



Also, thanks heaps for all the replies. I'm fast learning that this may be the friendliest forum on the internet.

 
/ragequit_life

#5 Daza

Daza

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 13 February 2017 - 05:10 PM

TD, Yes with the key in ACC position the voltage is <12V.  

So how would I go about testing the Fuel Pump Resistor- is it a voltage check?



#6 Daza

Daza

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 13 February 2017 - 05:12 PM

PS. I have spark and the tacho wobbles when cranking. I have checked a plug and it is not getting fuel.

Undid the fuel filter hose connector and cranked the engine- no fuel came out.



#7 trentmeyer23

trentmeyer23

    Forum Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 732 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:53 PM

Is it a stock or aftermarket pump?

My 5S-GTE Build:

Click Here

trentmeyer23siggreen_zpsaf02b3dd.jpg


#8 Daza

Daza

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 14 February 2017 - 06:52 AM

everything on the vehicle is stock. cept for a BOV which was fitted when i got it.

#9 ausjd2703

ausjd2703

    Forum Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 223 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:38 AM

sounds like a dead pump  blocked filter or a bad relay, considering you tried bypassing the relay and resistor id say your pumps dead.

try connecting 12v straight to the pump under the boot carpet (grey connector from memory with blue and white wires) if the pump runs its a relay issue if it doesnt its a pump issue.

 

its possible if it sat long enough the fuel pump is gummed up with crap, unlikely but can happen.


ADM ST185 running Gen 3 3SGTE with GTX2867, Haltech PS1000, Racepak dash, Wilwood 330mm four piston fronts. work CR Kais 17-8. full 3" exhaust. FMIC.


#10 Daza

Daza

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 14 February 2017 - 08:27 AM

have run wires direct from battery to pump and can hear it working. so maybe relay?

Edited by Daza, 14 February 2017 - 08:29 AM.


#11 GT-FOUR

GT-FOUR

    OZCelica Junkie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,288 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:W.A.
  • STATE:WA

Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:16 AM

I had the same symptoms and it ended up being a dead fuel pump relay (aftermarket pump and relay)


JDM ST185 Widebody 258kW / 12.045 @ 185.19 km/h

2010 Hoonda Accord Euro


#12 Daza

Daza

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:56 AM

while running checks found the pump relay has been by passed/ wires cut and joined underside of fuse box.
removed relay and car started.

#13 ausjd2703

ausjd2703

    Forum Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 223 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:11 PM

thats some dodgie stuff, but least its running.

i know i have bypassed the fuel pump resistor but what they did sounds really dodgie lol


ADM ST185 running Gen 3 3SGTE with GTX2867, Haltech PS1000, Racepak dash, Wilwood 330mm four piston fronts. work CR Kais 17-8. full 3" exhaust. FMIC.


#14 Daza

Daza

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 14 February 2017 - 03:05 PM

while running checks found the pump relay has been by passed/ wires cut and joined underside of fuse box.
removed relay and car started.
after stopping and carrying out a compression test. car wont start. have spark, leades are correct.
But again cant hear fuel pump turn ON.
HOW do I test the fuel pump relay.
Also I cant find the feul pump resistor.

#15 TD.

TD.

    OZCelica Junkie

  • NSW & ACT Moderator
  • 1,987 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney CBD
  • Interests:Above Us Only Sky.
  • STATE:NSW

Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:02 PM

Sounds like u will need to completely undo and rewire around the fuel pump relay.

The fact that someone else has been there and just hacked shit up is very concerning and your focus should be returning everything to stock, this makes troubleshooting and diagnostics heaps easier over the internet.



Also, thanks heaps for all the replies. I'm fast learning that this may be the friendliest forum on the internet.

 
/ragequit_life

#16 Daza

Daza

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 14 February 2017 - 05:53 PM

Yep T.D. Have begun to rewire the FPR and have found now that the Fuel Pump has gone Intermittent and then to Not working at all. I then ran direct wires from battery to the fuel pump connector in the back and it pumped for a moment then stopped.

I'm guessing that the fuel pump may be a bit on the way out perhaps.

considering now to remove tank/ replace fuel pump and FPR.

 

The intermittent problems with the fuel pump may have been the issue all along= Is this something of a known problem? 

 

What Pump should I go wheres the best place to get one- Hanson, Repco, supercheap??? and where do you get relays for these puppies.?

Thanks for the help..



#17 hemimark

hemimark

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 43 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Perth Western Australia
  • Interests:American Mopar muscle cars especially 1968-1970 B bodies and 1970-1971 E bodies. Celica ST165 and Skyline R32 GT/R.
  • STATE:WA

Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:29 PM

If you want the relay to plug into the original location in the relay box you will need an original Toyota relay. The only way to use an aftermarket one would be to remove the connectors from the relay box, connect them to the non genuine relay and mount it somewhere outside the relay box. My friend is having issues with this relay and they are expensive from Toyota compared to a Narva or Hella one from an auto shop. If you do decide to wire the fuel pump direct keep the Circuit opening relay (attached to the ECU) in the loop or you will bypass the fuel cut. I use a SARD 265 LPH pump it fit perfect and is very quiet you never hear it pumping but was expensive. Don't use normal fuel hose inside the tank or the outside layer will disintegrate you need special hose or reuse the original if it is long enough for the new pump.


Edited by hemimark, 14 February 2017 - 10:42 PM.


#18 trentmeyer23

trentmeyer23

    Forum Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 732 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:55 PM

Gates make submersible hose that is E85 compatible as well.

My 5S-GTE Build:

Click Here

trentmeyer23siggreen_zpsaf02b3dd.jpg


#19 Daza

Daza

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 15 February 2017 - 07:00 AM

thanks for the replies, will post after I complete.

#20 Tinman

Tinman

    Forum Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 458 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:FNQ
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 15 February 2017 - 10:37 AM

I have an aeromotive stealth 320lph .... is good so far.

 

Here is the page for Fuel Pump Relay and Resistor Inspection

 

Fuel%20Pump%20Relay%20and%20Resistor%20I



#21 Daza

Daza

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 15 February 2017 - 05:15 PM

Tinman, thanks I'll keep this info.

So today I the fuel pump was to be replaced and have taken fuel tank out, drained it and replaced the fuel pump with a Bosch in tank pump.

I also decided to use a dedicated wire harness for the fuel pump to avoid any issues with existing wires, deterioration or existing relay problems and I installed a new relay with complete harness to the fuel pump.

So now I have by passed the original relay including the resistor also.

 It's a but of a job working of the google search on the phone but managed to get it done. I was tempted to cut a hole in the rear section near the fuel gauge sensor hole. I can't understand why they would put a hole there and not one for the pump?

 

Anyway ti's done and running nicely now.



#22 Daza

Daza

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 15 February 2017 - 05:19 PM

If you want the relay to plug into the original location in the relay box you will need an original Toyota relay. The only way to use an aftermarket one would be to remove the connectors from the relay box, connect them to the non genuine relay and mount it somewhere outside the relay box. My friend is having issues with this relay and they are expensive from Toyota compared to a Narva or Hella one from an auto shop. If you do decide to wire the fuel pump direct keep the Circuit opening relay (attached to the ECU) in the loop or you will bypass the fuel cut. I use a SARD 265 LPH pump it fit perfect and is very quiet you never hear it pumping but was expensive. Don't use normal fuel hose inside the tank or the outside layer will disintegrate you need special hose or reuse the original if it is long enough for the new pump.

Hemimark, in regards to the "Fuel Cut" from the Circuit Opening relay- what is this for?

Secondly, if I have mounted the new relay to the side of the original Relay Box- Which wire do I use to keep the "Circuit opening relay"  in the loop. (I'm guessing I use it as the "signal" wire for the new relay?

 

 

THanks



#23 silycr

silycr

    OZCelica Junkie

  • Queensland Moderator
  • 1,433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 15 February 2017 - 06:40 PM

Fuel cut would be when the ECU detects too much boost

 

Yes, you can use the COR as the signal wire for the new relay. Or you could use the original relay and close the 2 wires for the resistor if you don't want ~9v at idle to the pump.



#24 Daza

Daza

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 16 February 2017 - 05:27 PM

ok so took your advice amd have used the (COR) wire Blue/ orange stripe as the signal. Appreciate all the help.

#25 Daza

Daza

    OZCelica Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • STATE:QLD

Posted 16 February 2017 - 05:28 PM

ok so took your advice amd have used the (COR) wire Blue/ orange stripe as the signal. Appreciate all the help.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users